• Re: Re:

    From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to POINDEXTER FORTRAN on Sun Jun 26 13:12:00 2022
    POINDEXTER FORTRAN wrote to THUMPER <=-

    These tyrants demonize advances in firearm technology and invent terms like "ghost guns" to scare the uninformed into supporting their agenda.

    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god
    damned often.

    Interesting point... Of course you know the FBI definition of 'mass
    shooting?' Before you look it up, think in YOUR mind what the term
    makes you think of...

    But the truth is, the self-manufacturing of firearms is something
    deeply rooted in American tradition and protected by the Constitution.

    Are there precedents regarding home firearm manufacturing and
    modification in case law? Not being a smart ass, actually curious.

    I don't know about case law, but it's NOT illegal to construct your
    own firearm for your use. Not to sell, by any means, but for you
    to make one. Now owning a firearm if you're otherwise illegal to do
    so (convicted felon, etc.) is a seperate crime.






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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to ARELOR on Sun Jun 26 13:15:00 2022
    ARELOR wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns have been manufactured and used for one of those in
    an underground workshop. I bet not many. Spain is an example of a
    country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it
    the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies
    main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt law enforcers
    an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.

    Yeah - the rhetoric is that 'ghost guns' are behing used in crimes and
    it's impossible to trace them. BUT - I've seen NOTHING in that regard
    in any reported data. I'm a legal gun owner. If I decide to manufacture
    my own custom build, I'm in no more danger of using it for a crime than
    any of the other guns I own.

    By the same token, a 'crook' that likes to use a gun for armed robbery
    or in a gang shooting? Why would they assemble parts at home that need
    time, attention and elbow grease when they can just buy one on the black market, or steal one?




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  • From JIMMY ANDERSON@VERT/OTHETA to MOONDOG on Sun Jun 26 13:37:00 2022
    MOONDOG wrote to ARELOR <=-

    Regarding criminal activity with "ghost guns," they're not actual acts
    of viol ence. They are arrests of individuals who are prohibited from legally owning a firearm getting caught with one. Home made firearms
    are nothing new. The difference is people can buy CNC mini mills that
    fit on a table top that do all the precision work.

    Much like 3d printers weren't a thing you could 'own at home' until just
    a few years ago...

    Years ago I saw a builder's blog where the gunsmith bought a shovel at
    the local big box hardware store, and used a bending brake, a saw, a
    drill and a hammer cut and bend the shovel scoop into an AK receiver. Excess metal used t o create smaller pieces of the receiver that
    required welding in place. The buttstock was made from the handle.
    the rest of the gun was surplus parts that require no special paperwork
    to own. Most military arms made aroiund and after WWII were made of stamped pieces spot welded together. the complex parts were firing components, the bolt, and the rifled barrel.

    Yep - a common 'concern' is that if they want to make 'any parts that can
    be made into a gun' restricted then shovels, pipes, etc.





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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 16:47:00 2022
    I think they're more scared about the fact that mass shootings are becoming normalized in people's minds, because they happen so god
    damned often.

    Interesting point... Of course you know the FBI definition of 'mass shooting?' Before you look it up, think in YOUR mind what the term
    makes you think of...

    In my mind it is when the shooter may have a specific target or two in
    mind but then shoots multiple persons beyond his target, or when someone
    just shoots indescriminantly into a crowd/building, etc., without any
    specific target and shoots multiple persons.

    However, in many recent lists, the press (and BBS posters) have included at least one school shooting where the kid shot the two people he apparently
    meant to, and no one else, despite having opportunity to do so.

    I don't know the FBI's definition, but apparently the press / non-2A
    definition is more than one person shot.


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  • From Belly@VERT/BRAZINET to Dumas Walker on Wed Jun 29 10:45:31 2022
    Re: Re: Re:
    By: Dumas Walker to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 2022 04:47 pm

    I don't know the FBI's definition, but apparently the press / non-2A definition is more than one person shot.

    The FBI does not define mass shootings, but instead has a classification of "serial murder" which is an incident where four or more people are killed, which may not necessarily involve gunfire. Most media considers four or more persons shot (not necessarily fatalities) to be a "mass shooting"

    o
    (O)
    BeLLy

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  • From Moondog@VERT/CAVEBBS to JIMMY ANDERSON on Tue Jun 28 16:09:00 2022
    Re: Re: Re:
    By: JIMMY ANDERSON to ARELOR on Sun Jun 26 2022 01:15 pm

    ARELOR wrote to POINDEXTER FORTRAN <=-

    If they were scared of guns manufactured in underground workshops being used for active shootings, it would be interesting to see how many unregistered guns have been manufactured and used for one of those in an underground workshop. I bet not many. Spain is an example of a country with a tight supply of commercial weapon parts, which makes it the sort of place in which baddies would turn to underground manufacturing, and while there are underground blacksmiths, baddies main sources of guns here are civil war stashes, corrupt law enforcers an Eastern Europe Smugglers.

    Afaik homemade guns are explicitly legal in a number of US States.

    Yeah - the rhetoric is that 'ghost guns' are behing used in crimes and
    it's impossible to trace them. BUT - I've seen NOTHING in that regard
    in any reported data. I'm a legal gun owner. If I decide to manufacture
    my own custom build, I'm in no more danger of using it for a crime than
    any of the other guns I own.

    By the same token, a 'crook' that likes to use a gun for armed robbery
    or in a gang shooting? Why would they assemble parts at home that need
    time, attention and elbow grease when they can just buy one on the black market, or steal one?




    ... As my grandfather had said in his last words, "A TRUCK!"

    I agree. Black market pistols are abundant. Sub $200 gunssell for $500 or more in Detroit from the back of a car.

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  • From bex@VERT/AMIGAC to JIMMY ANDERSON on Fri Jul 1 10:40:00 2022
    JIMMY ANDERSON wrote to MOONDOG <=-

    MOONDOG wrote to ARELOR <=-

    legally owning a firearm getting caught with one. Home made firearms
    are nothing new. The difference is people can buy CNC mini mills that
    fit on a table top that do all the precision work.

    Much like 3d printers weren't a thing you could 'own at home' until
    just a few years ago...

    Well.... if you consider 14 years "just a few years ago". Darwin's RepRap printer was released in 2008.




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